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April 8th 2019 BOD Meeting


  • Board delegatives members :
    • Cedric (1)
    • Etienne (1)
    • keithgoldstein (1)
    • BaileyL (1)
    • RayJohansen (1)
    • gsaouli (1)
      • 6/9
  • Board :
    • Alternate board members :
      • Cedric

  • Board members :
    • Etienne
    • keithgoldstein
    • BaileyL
    • RayJohansen
    • gsaouli
  • Guests
    • ThomasG
    • Denis Mönch (PPDE political officer)
    • Pirateradio
    • Mickey Sinclair


  • Board delegatives members :
    • DanPrazeresBR
    • MichalGill (excused)
    • Ladislav.Koubek (excused)
  • Board :
    • Alternate board members :
      • DanPrazeresBR
    • Board members :

Ordre du jour

Board Meeting



keithgoldstein: Ladislav and Mike are absent.

Mike indicated that he had another meeting.


2.1.1 Chair and secretary

keithgoldstein: Chair: Bailey

Secretary: Everyone, (Keith is set, but you can switch if you let me know.)

2.1.2 Quorum

keithgoldstein: Bailey, Guillaume, Keith, Etienne, Ray, Cedric

Guests as well.

keithgoldstein: Quorum is set with 6 out of 7. I believe Cedric is taking Mike's vote?
RayJohansen: Ladislav still reports health issues and is not available as a result.



{{motion|title=Do we approve the minutes?

keithgoldstein: Guillaume voted by postal vote as yes.
keithgoldstein: Minutes are approved with 6 out of 7 votes.




gsaouli: First, a new board and organs in PPCH last week. They now have a new generation of pirates. Copresidents have been replaced. Guillaume has also stepped down. Instead, they have new cochairs. One woman and one man. As well, there is a permanent GA.
gsaouli: There was feedback on a petition to the NGOs that are trying to rescue people in the Mediteranean. Both commissions of the national assembly go into the matter and discussed, but deemed that the petition should not go further. It was a first round, and went well considering, but they are still a bit disappointed it did not progress.


BaileyL: Utrecht Pirates are starting a social media campaign. As part of that Rico Brower is interviewing top candidates. He is making video podcasts. Bailey and Ray are assisting with social media from that. If you are not involved in EU elections but would like to support that, please let them know. PP Finland has a new blog post, this coming weekend.
keithgoldstein: There is ongoing stuff, such as the Catalonia issue, and perhaps more that will come up later.
RayJohansen: The Top Pirate Candidate interviews is a separate project. See Ray's report about that.


Etienne: We have election starting in 12 hours.

We made 3 TV commercial, radio... See the article on the website.

They setup a threshold to enforce the major party and block the small party.

We are petitioning the supreme court to low the threshold.

We'll probably have a far-right government.

I hope we'll do a decent score for the election but we won't expect to win.



RayJohansen: - Business as usual

- #SaveYourInternet and #stopACTA2

- #Organizing and coordinating Top Pirate Candidate video interviews with PPEU, Bailey and Rico B. on Potkaars. So far MAB, Marketa and Julia Reda. We will put up the videos here and on our Youtube channel and also share widely on social media.

My responsibilities

- Social Media: Ongoing, everyday thing

- Activism and causes: Ongoing, everyday thing

- Standing Comm Member Data: First meeting will be called in the next two weeks



Etienne: Nothing new.

I won't have a lot of times until first week of June (entrance exam...) and I'll focus my time on European elections with PPFR. I'll continue slowly the statutes revision.


Macburns: Announcement that Joseph Collentine is open to opening up Pirate Times again if we have members of PPEU and PPI that will take charge.
keithgoldstein: Who wants the admin rights?
We should send Joseph an email with the names and contacts of those who would like admin access.




Cedric: Have some contact with PPRU and PPCH
Cedric: For the first one : they want a view on PPFR, how it works and what are our tools
Cedric: Interview conducted about Congressus.
Cedric: For the second one : a discussion around Congressus and future presentation in Switzerland

GB Issue and Resolution

RayJohansen: I would like to start by stating that we ended up in a situation that made a few people unhappy. I am unhappy with that. There was a comment that we should have spoken with the board of PPDE before publishing a blog post that was meant for the entire world. That was a mistake on our part. Patrick made some comments, who felt that the comments were all directed at the German Board. However, there was only one paragraph. Some of the adjectives were quite strong. A lot of feelings connected to this came across. We then received an email from Thomas, PPDE's international coordinator, to see if we could revise our statement. That is why I am here today to see if we can work together and move on. Sorry for the mistakes.

BaileyL: I agree with Ray in that we made a huge mistake by not consulting with the German board before publishing. Not just that, but also speaking about the issue, but also speaking about the way we want to defend certain values. We should have had a conversation, and we were too harsh. Having said that, I don't think we shouldn't have made a statement or been angry about the situation. Everyone is legit about how they feel about the situation. Everyone's feelings are valid. I personally feel a lot of regret about the harshness of our publication. I take responsibility for that and apologize to the board of PPDE for that. This is me, and how I feel about it. Going forward we need to remember, let's be harsh on our enemies and soft on each other. We went against that. And apologize.

Etienne: Some words that were used were harshed and may have hurt our friends from PPDE. But I would like to state that this statement was made from a lack of human reaction. There were problems with the legal situation in Germany, which is something that i can understand. We used strong words, because we had strong... We thought that the board and PPDE did not react to the human aspect of the question. To my knowledge we didn't see a statement about the victims, or how the board would react, until we started to see things... I know that the statement was originally made in November... The strong reaction... If the legal aspect... then we are stuck with this situation. A short statement that apologises for the situation and the pirate movement, might make the situation more peacefully and allow us to move forward. And I hope that the situation tonight might show to our friends in Germany that show us that we are all affected, and some people in other countries might not understand is we are locked with ...

gsaouli: If you look at neighboring countries, then it is stated as the pirate party takes this position. Therefore, it becomes a statement that we include. PPCH has a very different position to the issue. PPCH does not accept that. Women do not accept that there is nothing happening. There is very harsh criticism and hard consequences. It is a hard problem to deal with. The only reply that we got is we are dealing with a process, and there is no other way. When I spoke with Marketa, she said that you are the first ones who dealt with multidimensional processes, and not the HR problems that arise. This acknowledgment has never been seen. When we spoke with the German representatives... There are delegates of PPI who never show up. Wire is the communication channel. German delegates and alternate board members never showed up. This is a problem we deal with. Yes, I can agree that we were too harsh and there was a build up process. Even now, let's get out a clear message. But not about the electoral process, but about the human side of things. This is what Bailey stated, it is the human side. It is about humans and what they are feeling. I want that people understand the predicament, and that we understand about their values. Women in the pirate movement. How do they feel... Not just the legal standpoint. This is what influences people. The fact that there is a case that has been presented to the public. The victims have not received any regard. They have not been taken care of, or in anyone's concern or priorities, and this is something that has been very concerning. These are the victims who are working for us, which have not been taken care of. How do we welcome women in the movement, when we do not take regard to this message. Yes, there were harsh words, but we need to look at the whole side of the problem. How do we make this a friendly place. It is a difficult task, to make positions available. It is a day to day chore and fight to change the environments. It took me ages to make this happen. I agree to that there are feelings that can be hurt, and there are people who took it the wrong way, perhaps because there are unspoken issues that have not been said. Those words needed to be spoken and brought to the board of the German Pirate Party. This is very urgent, because elections are in a few months. It is also in Switzerland and in France. We need to make a clear statement, so women do not run away in the first few meetings. My intent is not to say a few words and run away, but to create a program, to reach the point of equilibrium, where women represent the party at large with the same opportunities.

Guest: I'm Daniel the secretary in Germany and responsible for all international contacts. Therefore I was astonished that no information about this statement or intent was... There was nothing but public statements. How to get rid of the candidate. Most of my colleagues were more dissatisfied with that than me personally... Now, I was asked to come here as a sort of olive branch. I see that there were harsh words but meaning what they say. In election times communication like that, on the internet, it can stay in there. It won't go away. A lot of my colleagues are asking what is the benefit for us of being involved in an NGO attacking us at an election season. That goes against everything that a ... stands for. Pretty much you can write me on every format you can think of. All of my contacts are public. No one tried to reach me. You can contact me if you need to. If that issue is that level of importance to all of the board. I would have at least wanted that to happen. You keep putting up what we as a board did, what is morally right. For that matter, we were elected in the winter of last year, at the moment all of that had already happened. The first thing we discussed as a board was that issue, the first thing we did as a board was acknowledge that issue. We cannot legally do anything more. I had personally asked for several lawyers, working especially on that case, working on every legal possibility. Several times we tried... to get the person who conducts the vote... the election leader... he is the one we have to contact for complaints. We not only decided we wanted him gone from the list once. We tried from all angles... Not only where he didn't put his documents in the right legal way, because he did it himself, because the election leader did it himself and said there is precedent. But also on the... because of the history, it is very hard for a party to get rid of a candidate. Our hands are pretty much bound. Even possibilities to get new candidates all candidates will not get approved for the election. Then, why don't we answer in general, we have a problem with a person we don't like... we believe this and don't want to get rid of him. That would mean in Germany the death of the Pirate Party. That is why this board came together. We would lose everything that we receive on a federal level. We have to try to get a little bit less than the votes for one candidate to even survive as a party. I personally don't like Julia's steps and how she took them. I received some information from how the previous board received information, and how they dealt with it was not idea and not for the Pirate movement in general and the Pirates in Germany. All of the initial steps we tried out were coordinated with Julia. We are not happy with how things turned out. A lot of our members, our female members were very involved with that (with the copyright). They were upset that we could not get rid of him. You believe he is innocent, but in this situation where there is the slightest doubt, I want that candidate gone. No matter who he is or aligned to. I understand that you are not happy about the situation. There is also a further development from Patrick and our board. If you have any questions about what we can or should do... but I can't listen to hours of comments about what we can or should do, because I can't go back in time.

gsaouli: I was stating that I understood we recognize that there are legal frameworks that you have to deal with. However, there are ways to mitigate the storm. That is why we stated that we need to develop programs to deal with harassment, but also making clear that the women in the party cannot be handled the way that they were in the case.

Etienne: We are not blaming you for the electoral system. We know that it can be complicated. What we don't understand is the lack of human reaction in front of this situation. Two questions: Did you not make a statement about GB and what will happen to him in the Pirate movement? Did you plan to tell us and authorities what was the situation, because there was an answer in one part. Did you plan to warn us about this situation, because I don't know if you can see, but one day after the statement, in the most wide read newspaper in France, and there was critique about PPFR having the same views. Did you plan to warn us about the situation?

Guest: When do you suppose that warning should have happened?

ThomasG: I believe even for the PPDE has the same side of this issue about sexual harassment. One of the problems was that there was a NDA with the board until the German... has said anything about it. This is why there was nothing to be heard about it. There is supposed to be or was a NDA about this as well. It is very difficult for any party to say anything about this if there is an NDA in existence. On that ground, you might see the situation a little different. The main accusation from PPDE is that you should have taken GB off the list, but you all know that there have been many attempts to take him off the list, but even that guy... even GB was favorable to it... well he... there is an exclusion process to try to get him off the list... but there are some rules about it, and this is highly complicated legal stuff. The problem is how to move forward. And we are all on the same page. And it was an impossible situation, from the very first moment... Even the German PP cannot state don't vote for it, because it is their legal obligation. Even today it is not too late to come up with a statement. To state we are... supporting those being the victims of sexual harassment... That committee that is a precommittee indicated that the actions that he is accused of... that process is still ongoing in the parliament. It is not an excuse.

Macburns: I worked very deeply in the European parliament. I read the report, and the people choosing and making these choices are overwhelmed and inexperienced with these things, and they are trying to get help because they are very inexperienced. In the European parliament there was a metoo movement that came over from America, and it was not only GB but there were many members of parliament that were interferred. I find it surprising and disturbing, and it only hits a small party like us. Most people in the whole of our community world wide, there is a quote of 10% sexual abuse claim around the world. So many people have said I don't want to be on that list. Or they are ignoring it. It is difficult to describe actually what happened there. I was also disappointed that we did not get more into doing things. And we don't know what actually happened. And he got in just as the new board was elected...

Guest: The position of the board of the PPDE to the Metoo movement is that we certainly support this. It wasn't that bad, so the legislation is happening anyway. Even if that happens, what happened was wrong, because it was at least an abuse of power. No one should be put in that situation, especially in the German parliament, but if you are in his situation you are able to essentially ruin someone's life there. It is a tremendous power difference. It needs to be dealt with in all work places and situations. Going forward, most of the communication concerning this situation. Most of the communication were formulated or worked on with my team. They can formulate what is in their view the right view. As Thomas and Macburns tried to explain, there are pretty much legal work positions. And everyone is pretty much lawyered up. We got a lawyer who is working on that case, so it is very hard for us to publicly comment on that. Even I am not privy to the information about what happened, and even the softest information appalled me. That is a shocking situation, being a young person with that opportunity and dealing with a person that is trying to force themselves into your life... We are trying and pretty much pushing to say everything or make public any information that we get as a board, so there is no secret information, but for certain information that involves the deducted writing from the European parliament, where they acknowledge that this could constitute sexual harassment, even that was only for the eyes of the board so we could tell the election leader. Even journalists were asking us about this document, but we were legally bound not to put this information out. There was no green light from the victim. We could not have any direct comment or involvement in those processes, because they were completely separate from the German Pirate Party.

RayJohansen: The details have been explained to us several times... It is the human aspect that has affected the other pirate movements around the world. I'm trying to see where do we go from here, because that is all that matters. We made a statement, but we have a point. We have taken down temporarily the statement that we made, to show an olive branch... Now where do we go from here? As a response to Thomas, we wanted to cooperate to make a statement that could satisfy both parties. The same comment was made Patrick. We have invited to edit that statement together with the German Pirate Party. A revised statement, which means that we would cooperate to improve it, removing words that upset the German party too much. I guess it would not be the same statement, but a changed statement.

BaileyL: Perhaps we could get a team together to work on it, and to come up with something new. I don't see it going back up as is. It depends on who works on it, and what that team decides.

RayJohansen: Formally we have an invitation from Patrick to cooperate. And we expect to get a response to that referring to that email, and we can collaborate with that team, in order to create a new revised statement.

Etienne: Florie from PPFR recommends that there is at least one woman from PPDE that participates on this statement, and PPI would like to have Bailey.

Etienne: Considering the working group, it would be good that we have a list of the participants, so we can know who is working on this matter.

gsaouli: Let's decide in 48 hours who will be part of the team. Is that ok for everyone. Seconded...

Guest: I would nominate my team leader and someone else working on the case to have a presentable statement.

RayJohansen: I suggest that we move on from here. I think we have an agreement.

The remaining issues were not discussed and will be decided at the next board meeting.


Survey for mailing list subscribe and Discourse

Pas de description

keithgoldstein: An unsubscribe option was said to have been created for our mailing lists. It was recommended against allowing a subscribe. I recommend that we create a Limesurvey form that will allow people to sign up for the list. We will need to manually verify the emails are legitimate members and manually sign them up. Does this make sense? Also there are perhaps issues setting up Discourse on our server, and also issues using the old server. I can perhaps ask another location in Israel to donate us a server to use for Discourse. Should I?
We will set up a survey Form that members can use to request to join the pp-leaders email list?
Set up a sign up form for the mailing list? (This is procedural because there are security concerns with the mailing list, and we will have to review the emails that sign up. After consultations with our tech team I cannot think of a better way to allow people to sign up.)
15yes.png Yes :
15no.png No :
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain : {{{Abstain}}}
Result: Motion rejetée

We will set up Discourse on a private server?
The tech team mentioned legal issues with hosting:

"The legal basics are not clear and it is not the case that this instance fully complies with the GDPR. For legal reasons it is not quite simple to operate a forum"

15yes.png Yes : {{{Yes}}}
15no.png No : {{{No}}}
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain : {{{Abstain}}}
Result: Motion rejetée

Etienne: Discourse is totally compatible with GDPR, and there is no obstacle to using it within the EU.


2.9.2 TT4

keithgoldstein: The call for speakers is set. It needs to be formatted and distributed right away.
The event is scheduled for Oct. 26-28. The cost of the event will be 1000 EUR. The budget for the event is 1000 EUR. We would like to ask PPI to commit an additional 400 euros, as was included in our prospective budget, to partially assist funding long-distance travel to the event for a few selected speakers. The cost of the event will not exceed the budget. Speakers and organizers will have to pay extra costs from their own pocket. Further crowdfunding donors and sponsors are requested to increase the budget to enable publication of the proceedings and costs for more speakers. Does PPI agree to the dates and the budget? The call for speakers is available and needs to be designed and distributed. An email was created for the event. Applications to speak should be made by sending an email to by July 1, 2019. Speakers are requested to provide a short summary of their intended discussion or presentation (up to 500 words).

Approve TT4's Date and Budget
Description de la motion
15yes.png Yes : {{{Yes}}}
15no.png No : {{{No}}}
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain :
Result: Motion rejetée


New call for ECOSOC submissions

keithgoldstein: All of the information is here:

The deadline for setting up a side event is April 19th. <not the 9th> I spoke with our volunteers in NY who said they could sit at the table for the event. Do we want to set up an exhibition? If so, what will it be? The statement is due April 26th.

Host an exhibition or side event? (This would be contingent on someone creating the content for an exhibition and arranging speakers for an event)
ECOSOC event
15yes.png Yes : {{{Yes}}}
15no.png No : {{{No}}}
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain :
Result: Motion rejetée

2.11 AOB - Any other business

Pirate Times is available soon. Josef Collentine agreed to give admin rights to amember of the PPI board and a member of the PPEU board. then they can create a working team with national Press Teams.


Guest: Can we make sure that the RTC is working for Pirates on Air, who cannot be on the chat. They are kicked off the chat on Discord. The RTC text connection is not able to be seen. As a public meeting, it is not a secret meeting, so it makes no sense to kick them off. It appears that Pirates on Air cannot take the chat on Discord and make it into RTC.
keithgoldstein: The next meeting is Sunday, April 22nd at 19:00