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The official minutes of the PPI General Assembly of July 2nd 2022

---02.07.2022 09:00 UTC ---"

  • Mumble: mumble.ppi.rocks
  • Audio recording: PiratesOnAir Streaming
Recording https://owncloud.ag-technik.de/s/Np8RCN4RqrkqbKY
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/user/PiratePartiesInt
https://piratesonair.net/live-stream/
https://youtu.be/D3riJ8Han9I
  • According to the Rules of Procedures Art 8. point 4 the Minutes of the last GA are accepted, as no objections had been voiced during the four weeks following the publication of the minutes.

Record of the meeting

1 - ATTENDEES

1.1 - Ordinary Members of PPI

Pirate Party of Austria - Roland

Pirate Party of Belgium
Pirate Party of Brazil
Pirate Party of Catalonia - Exile
Pirate Party of Chile - Mauricio
Czech Pirate Party - Mike, Veronika
Estonian Pirate Party
Pirate Party of France
Pirate Party Germany - Bastian, Martin (TygBY) , Gregory (about 20 minutes later ?)
Pirate Party of Greece
Pirate Party of Hungary
Pirate Party of Israel - Keith
Pirate Party of Italy
Pirate Party Luxembourg
Pirate Party of Netherlands - Mark Anthony
Pirate Party of New Zealand (1/2 vote; vote shared with IP New Zealand)
Internet Party New Zealand (1/2 vote; vote shared with PP New Zealand)
Pirate Party of Norway - Linda, Svein
Polish Pirate Party
Pirate Party of Portugal
Pirate Party of Russia - Alexander, Artyom
Pirate Party of Serbia
Pirate Party of Slovakia (1/2 vote; vote shared with the other Slovakia)
Pirate Party - Slovakia (1/2 vote; vote shared with the other Slovakia)
Pirate Party Switzerland
Pirate Party of Tunisia
Pirate Party of Turkey (1/2 vote; vote shared with new Pirate Party Turkey)
Pirate Party Turkey (1/2 vote; vote shared with old Pirate Party of Turkey)
Ukrainian Pirate Community
Pirate Party of Venezuela
Total Voting Power of the GA is 9,0 (out of 27). Power needed for establishing the quorum is 9.
We have 9 parties present at the roll call that took place at 09:05 UTC.

1.2 - Observer Members

Internet Party of Serbia (POKRET NAPRED)
Pirates without Borders
Pirate Lobby, France
Pirate Party of Berlin (Piratenpartei Berlin)
Pirate Party of Bavaria
Pirate Party of Hesse
Pirate Party of La Rioja (Spain)
Pirate Party of Lower Saxony
Pirate Party of New York
Pirate Party of North Rhine-Westfalia
Pirate Party Potsdam - Bastian
europe beyond division e.V. Formerly: Young Pirates of Germany
Young Pirates Sweden (Ung Pirat)
Pirate Party of Japan (old)
Brandenburg
Pirati (Italy)
Pirate Party of Finland
European Pirate Party
The Pirates Center of Belarus
Pirate Party of Japan (new)
Pirate Party of Slovenia
Pirate Party of Spain
Pirate Party Romania
Pirate Party of Latvia

1.3 - Guests Participating

United States Pirate Party (Anthony Jay, chairman)

1.4 - Proceedings

RoP: https://wiki.pp-international.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rules_of_procedure

GA opened at 09:08 UTC by Bailey Lamon

Meeting chaired by Bailey Lamon

Secretary for this meeting is Mike Gill (with the support of Keith Goldstein)

Voting Power of the GA is 9,0 (out of 27). Amount needed for establishing the quorum is 9.

Parties present at the GA opening (the official roll call):

Pirate Party of Austria - Roland
Pirate Party of Catalonia - Exile
Pirate Party of Chile - Mauricio
Czech Pirate Party - Mike, Veronika
Pirate Party Germany - Martin (TygBY) , Gregory (about 20 minutes later)
Pirate Party of Israel - Keith
Pirate Party of Netherlands - Mark Anthony
Pirate Party of Norway - Linda, Svein
Pirate Party of Russia - Alexander, Artyom
Pirate Party - Slovakia (1/2 vote; vote shared with the other Slovakia) - Rudolf

Streaming started: https://piratesonair.net/live-stream/Recording and [1]

Proposed Agenda

    • Saturday, July 2nd 2022 (all times in UTC)

08:00 Mumble room opens for last-minute registration 09:00 Start of the GA with opening Statements, roll call and formalities (acceptance of agenda, meeting chair, etc) 09:15 New member applications 10:00 Board report 10:30 Reports by the treasurer, lay auditors and the Court of Arbitration 11:00 Statute Proposals 12:00 Break 13:00 Motions 14:00 Open discussion/member feedback/closing statements

Opening of the GA

  • No objections to the agenda and Bailey chairing the meeting.

Acceptance of new members

Bailey: The first thing on the agenda are new member applications. We have just one this time. Earlier this year the United States Pirates' National Committee voted to apply to join the PPI and they did.
Anthony Jay: Hi, you can call me AJ, I'm the current chair of the USPP. In the past few years we started to pick up steam. The party grew about thirty percent since I joined about 1.5 years ago. It used to be just Massachusetts and Wisconsin PPs. Now we are six. This past fall we started to talk about getting involved again with the intl. Pirate community, to break our perceived isolationism. We want now to get back into the intl. Pirate movement and I have no idea why we're not in it already.
Bailey: Everything about USPP is fairly public. You can find everything below or on the discourse.
Exile: You said your party is getting bigger now. What are your party's aims. Are we talking a group of internet activists or a full program?
AJ: We're not gonna have a Pirate president. We aim at the local level now. City and state legislatures, to be loud and spread the message that the two major parties will take some of our ideas. We want as many people as possible getting elected on a local level and push our ideas to the US politics generally.
Rudolf: How many members you have now?
AJ: We keep membership numbers on the state, not national level. The combined number is about couple hundred. The number of serious active people is about 30-50 people.
  • The application by the United States Pirate Party (USPP).

Submitted to Discourse here: https://ga.pp-international.net/t/new-member-applications-i-2022/371/2

  • Earlier this year the USPP National Committee voted that the USPP shall join the PPI as an ordinary member. The PPI Board has been informed of this well ahead of the deadline.
  • The main ruling document of the USPP are their bylaws, which can be found here:

https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=Pirate_National_Committee_(PNC)/Bylaws

Bailey: If there's no more questions, we can vote:
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Austria
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Chile
❱ Y ❰ Czech Pirate Party
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party Germany
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Israel
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Netherlands
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Norway
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Russia
❱ ½Y ❰ Pirate Party - Slovakia
Motion
Acceptance of a new member: The United States Pirate Party (USPP)
Do we accept the USPP as a full member?
15yes.png Yes : 9.5
15no.png No : 0
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain : 0
Result: The US Pirates are admitted as a full PPI member.


Mike: The admission of the USPP raises out total voting power to 28, meaning the minimum voting power is 1/3, ergo 9.5. With the USPP the current voting power present is 10.5.

Board Report

  • Board report delivered by the chairwoman Baily Lamon

https://etherpad.pp-international.net/p/PPI_GA_July_2022_board_report

Bailey:

PPI Mid-Year General Assembly July 2nd 2022--Board Report

The last PPI General Assembly was back in January, and since then the PPI Board has been making an effort to build on previously established goals as well as begin new initiatives. Overall the main focus of PPI is to be a supportive force in the Pirate world, whether it is providing tools to assist new parties in establishing themselves, organizing meetings and different events to bring Pirates together from around the world to share common ideas and goals, or doing campaigns and advocacy work to fight for our ideas in settings such as ECOSOC. The current routine of the board is to meet every 3 weeks (Tuesdays) with rotating times on Big Blue Button. The audio for these meetings is always streamed through Pirates On Air and they are always open and welcome to all of you. We have also kept up with our monthly socials aka "Pirate Beer" at the end of every month.

In some ways, we have been successful while in other ways we could use some improvement. 

We have always put a particular emphasis on organizing our 5 Standing Committees, each with a different focus but all meant to encourage sharing and collaboration among our membership. At the last GA we discussed how we need more member involvement in the committees in order for them to really thrive, and how there is potential to do more with these committees than just meetings about whatever the proposed topic is. This is sort of where the ball was dropped, so to speak. Close to the beginning of this term, we organized the "Night of Standing Committees" which was essentially meant to be an informational meeting where the board provided information about each committee so that folks could decide how they want to get involved...while there were several attendees at this meeting, no one actually ended up joining any committees and it was difficult for the board to organize the committees with the same momentum as in the past. Our general secretary, Michal Gill did organize a SCULL meeting related to party documents, but there were only 3 attendees and all were from the PPI board. We hope that going forward we can revive the committees again and that as a community we can get re-motivated to have regular meetings and events surrounding our common goals and values. We ask our members that if you have any suggested topics, share them and we can make them happen!

As a reminder, these are the 5 Standing Committees:

SCENE: Media, PR & Campaigning SCUBA: UN/ECOSOC & Conferences SCULL: Internal Party Processes SCURVY: Finances Joint PPI-PPEU Working Group

In March several delegates from PPI member parties as well as the board came together to start the 'Pirates 4 Ukraine' campaign after PPNO Chair Svein Mork Dahl travelled to Ukraine to deliver aid to refugees. This was an ongoing effort to raise funds to support Svein's work which mainly focused on delivering medical aid. The campaign ended in May and generated almost 1000 euros.

ECOSOC/Conferences: -PPI is a sponser of the Pirate Security Conference which took place in June

DAO:

Upcoming events: -Pirate Summer Camp -Think Twice Conference

Something that hasn't changed and remains in place is the technical resources we have to support new parties being established, which we organize in the form of "PPI Clinics" where we meet with members from a new party, they tell us what they are in need of, and we do our best to provide it for them. We have no held any PPI Clinics so far this term but we emphasize that this is available and you do not need to be a new party to ask us for any kind of support.

AJ: I can't promise anything but I hope the US Pirates might be interested in joining the standing committees. How do we go about it?
Bailey: Come up with a topic, get the word out, schedule a meeting and do it. I'm aware that timezones might be a problem.
Svein: The work is still ongoing. I'm currently in Warsaw now and even if the campaign has ended, the work is still going on.
Mike: The ECOSOC thing in Vienna was a intersessional consultation of a committee established to prepare a UN. They decided a few years back that they wanted a convention on fighting cyber crime internationally. They wanted a public consultation. PPI's interest was to make sure that there were no draconic solutions, and that human rights would be held above fighting crime. Regarding Think Twice, if you know any speakers please invite them. It will take place in Prague, August 6th & 7th hybrid, speaker suggestions admitted. Directly after ´, for two weeks from August 7 we have our traditional Pirate Summer Camp in Poland, so we'll go there straight after the conference.
https://tt22.thinktwice.today/
Sign up for speakers:https://lime.ppi.rocks/index.php?r=survey/index&sid=326194
Link to the "Pirate Summer Camp" in August 2022:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/international-pirate-summer-camp-2022-registration-130928054335
Manuel: Within the UN system there are multipe agencies invested in promoting development. PPI has the observer status. We have some offices covered but any extra help concerning manning the UN location is welcome to help. I've just attended a meeting at the UN in Santiago, Chile. We had the chance to hold a meeting with members of civil society. This shows how PPI can remain involved in these events.
Anthony: If there is anything else that the US Pirates can be of help, we will help.

Treasurer Report

  • Financial report delivered by the treasurer Sebastian Krone:
https://wiki.pp-international.net/wiki/index.php?title=Finances
https://owncloud.ag-technik.de/s/4PxMPyobwdWNtcG
Bastian: Usually, the board appointed the treasurer from the board members. I am a temporary treasurer, since I'm an alternate board member only and no board members wanted this nice job. You can see everything in the links/wiki. We currently have app. 10k EUR. For The Pirates4Ukraine on the boards order I opened a dedicated PayPal account which I'd love to change now to a general donations PayPal. All the PayPal money has been transferred to Svein's PayPal by now. I don't have access as of now to the main bank account. Keith is managing our crypto account. I tried to get in touch with our lay auditors without any luck.
Roland: Since you're also doing IT, I'd like to ask: PPAT filed a complaint about a month ago and got no response. Can you make sure the e-mail got to them?
Bastian: I don't have the power to check if a specific e-mail made it to them but forwarding to their e-mails was successfully tested at the start of their term. I haear here today that some people don't receive the PPI e-mails. I'll test it to make sure al is okay.
Vojtech: Since the moment I was elected, I have not received any responses about if something would occur. I was not summoned. I never got any complaint or summons to deliberate on anything.
Linda: Can you confirm where the accounts show a transfer of funds?
Bastian: Yes, I put the transfer receipt on Wire and I can send it to you privately. I don't see Vojtech's e-mail here, so maybe you never gave me your e-mail to be added to the CoA mailing list.
Keith: https://redmine.pp-international.net/issues/410
Svein: On the PPI web there's a post on the P4U. I'd like someone to edit out the link for donations, since the campaign is closed now. Thanks.
Exile: Regarding the board report in general, is there a special reason that we are switching back to Mumble?
Bailey: The reason we've been using Mumble for the GAs (and not Big Blue Button we usually use) is that Big Blue Button was, for quite some time, not capable of handling higher numbers of people present. There's been an update recently but we already planned to use Mumble for this GA.
Linda: I see that the transfer happened but just part of the money.
Bailey: If Gregory shows up today he can tell you. Only he can currently send money outside of the bank account.
Linda: I see why you want to switch away from the Swiss Bank.
Rolland: You have been treasurer since 2020, why don't you still not have access to the bank account?
Bastian: I'm asking the board for access at every meeting.
Bailey: We used to be mailing paperwork over the Atlantic. I'm puzzled about this situation. My understanding is that the paperwork we've done was to give people access to the bank account.
Alexander: I would like to thank Bastian for his work as treasurer. The Swiss account complicates things. I have confidence this will be resolved, benefiting the PPI.
Svein: I remember I was lay auditor back in 2018 and there were the same issues back then. In Norway it's pretty easy to giving access to other people.
Manuel: There is will within the board to address this. The jurisdiction (Switzerland) is preventing us to solve this impass. Most of the board is lacking direct access. There have been some attempts to fix this issue but we didn't manage that. Maybe a reset of the structure of the PPI is necessary. We are still trying to figure it out within the organization.
Mike: I very much agree with Svein and Manuel. We discussed this about a month ago. If it is necessary to change the bank, we would need to change the domicile of the organization, because we need a bank account to have the organization there. It is worth considering, because the Swiss accounts are quite Byzantine.
Svein: Mike said a lot of what I was gonna say. When it comes to the intl. nature of the organisation. In Norway you need to get a VIN number and you get access, even as a foreigner. It would probably work anywhere but in tax havans such as Switzerland.
Linda: If Gregory is the only one with access I think it might be a good temporary fox for Gregory to give us report on the status of the Swiss account.
Bastian: There is an advantage that we have the bank account in Switzerland, because the bank takes care of our tax declarations. Therefore taxes are easy to file in Switzerland. It would be a lot of work if we had to do it elsewhere. If we moved to another country we could open a bank account there. It's worth discussing in the board. But I'm also the chair of Pirates Without Borders, we also have a Swiss account and we have no problems with that.
Bailey: This is something that could be decided in the Scurvy committee.
Mark: I've been working with Svein and seeing what has been happening with this campaign for Ukraine. In another campaign we raised about 5k EUR and hauled medicine from Holland to Ukraine. I've been watching how this has happened at PPI, and there have been hassles and so many problems. It amazes me how many hurdles there have been. I hope we can resolve this quickly, so we can do things effectively and quickly.
Mike: I agree it was ineffective and slow, not like the work on the ground. It is a shame. But it has to be kept in the mind that this was our first time running this type of operation. With donations it was complicated in our own experience at PPCZ. It is a shame, but hopefully if there is a next time it will be better.
Roland: Is the money delivered? Is it actually where it belongs?
Bastian: The PayPal account money is delivered. I can't speak for the bank account after May 25th. The person with access to the bank account is Gregory who is not here and I simply don't know.
Svein: I have received the money from the PayPal account, not the money from the bank account. We are using it right here, right now. I will send confirmation. I am confirming that I received the funds from the PayPal.
TygBY: I wrote to Gregory and he says that Bailey also has access. We're currently waiting for the Canadian Post.

Translation from Gregory: "Bailey also has access - she also has the card reader Unfortunately, I can't access the account when I'm on the road, because I only have the access number on my computer at home, and I can't access the computer via TeamViewer, because something crashed. I have the card reader with me, but that is of little use without access data. We have been waiting for Bailey's papers for ages, or rather for the Canadian Post - in the meantime, however, the papers are all complete since the BPT (3 Weeks ago) and hopefully back at the bank."

Bailey: I have been waiting on a passport, but that is for a seperate issue regarding PPHQ. Regarding the bank account, I have never had access. That never got set up. It was intended to be set up, but I need help for that to happen.
Mike: When I used the word Byzantine earlier (about the Swiss bank), it seems to have been on point.
Bailey: I've never been in a position to have access to the bank account.
Mark: Is it needed that you have access to have the money transferred?
Bailey: No, Gregory does have access and should be able to do it.
Bastian: You need PIN, card, and a card reader to have access to that bank account. Gregory has been using it in the past but I believe that he doesn't have the card reader with him when on the road. This is something that we will have to get back to within the board.
Bailey: If I could transfer the money, I would've.
Mark: For the value of transparency it is really good that we are discussing this. I think it would be great if we could solve this issue for the future.
Bailey: Any other questions or comments?
Veronika: I think the charity problem is with the law. In Czech Republic political parties are not allowed to do charitable work in any way. We have one charity that's very loosely connected with us. The Swiss issue might be similar to it. I believe it's now about the banks to finish the transfer. For the future we have to do this better.
Svein: We have the same rules in Norway. We also must have a separate entity doing the charity for political parties here. But PPI isn't a political party but an NGO. We try to deal with the fundraising the best we can. It's a learning experience for everyone. I'm just sad it has taken attention from the work on the ground, 3000 people we brought from Ukraine, more than 1M EUR in medical supplies that we've brought to Ukraine. I'm still glad we did it and we should do more of it.
Roland: The reason the P4U has put the campaign into the PPI's hands was to avoid these problems of being a party. ANd it ended being a big problem anyway.
Exile: Can we perhaps take a break as we're already way behind schedule?
AJ: The only concern any US Pirate has had were some concerns over finances. The question of people within USPP were about finances.
Artyom: How can we do financial transfers now alternativey? Maybe through crypto? Especially with Russia being cut off from SWIFT?
Bailey: There's the PPI PayPal account, the new one for the P4U, the Swiss Bank and a crypto account.
Linda: Will we vote on the mandate for the board to move the PPI elsewhere? Because it's also on the agenda later.

10:47 (UTC) - Break for 30 mins.

Lay Auditors Report

none are present

Court of Arbitration Report

Vojtech: I was not summoned since we were elected in January.
Roland: So can you confirm that you didn't receive the PPAT complaint?
Vojtech:I never got any complain nor summons to deliberate on anything.

(Sorry need to go for lunch)

Bailey: Based on the suggestions in the chat, we take a 30 minute break and let's be back at 11:15 UTC/13:15 CEST. Enjoy your break.

BREAK
Post-break Roll Call

Pirate Party of Austria - Roland

Pirate Party of Catalonia - Exile
Pirate Party of Chile - Mauricio
Czech Pirate Party - Mike, Veronika
Pirate Party Germany - Martin (TygBY) , Gregory (about 20 minutes later)
Pirate Party of Israel - Keith
Pirate Party of Netherlands - Mark Anthony
Pirate Party of Norway - Linda, Svein
Pirate Party of Russia - Alexander, Artyom

Still at 10.0 voting power.

Statute Proposals

Bailey: The proposal was submitted by Mike Gill.
  • Before the deadline (1 month prior to today) only one proposal was submitted by Mike Gill on behalf of the board.
Mike: Statutes’ Change Mainly Regarding the Positions of the General Secretary and the Treasurer
Based on the current situation and need for a few changes I hereby propose, on behalf of the board (and as presented to the board on its meeting of May 31 2022) the following statutes’ changes.
Some discussion over the change took place on Discourse here: https://ga.pp-international.net/t/proposed-statute-changes/370
Most changes proposed there were accepted and the proposal
The changes with detailed descriptions are linked here and allow me to lead you through them, line by line:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c95VXBys-A-3ECGV2qkn8hVqJe4ssx_1XF7dLUJhdOE/edit#gid=0

In blue you can see the most important changes. In violet any non-trivial changes and without colour any technical changes or no changes to the text at all.
Mike: You may have seen this on the Discourse. Bastian is the temporary treasurer, because we didn't have a candidate among the board members. Even though Bastian is an alternate, the statutes don't consider this. The board had to make a decision and so the decision was to appoint Bastian as a temporary treasurer and then to solve the impass at this GA.
Vojtech: I discussed this on the Discourse, and I think the changes are quite minor. If every one of you can go through the table, you can understand that there are no significant changes. I don't see any big problems.
Mike: The blue comments are the important changes. The violet ones are changes that were needed. White comments are not changes or something minor. Paragraph 4 you can see the original text and the changes. We have been including the alternate board members as much as possible. We are now giving more power to alternate board members, and so they deserve their own article. 12.6 is there to handle the place of the alternate board members. 12.7 is a clarification of the process about how alternates are elected. This puts into paper the way that things have been handled for the last 4 years. 12.9 is a new article to clarify how the board members are included in meetings, regarding delegation. This clarifies that if there are fewer than 9 board members present, the alternates automatically take a voting position.
Vojtech will resume do to technical difficulties. There are a few changes that concern that the board meetings are public. Article 13.7 changes some language and clarifies that there are voting persons on the board who are alternates and board members. There is nothing big I would say. There are changes to the positions in the board. There are clarifications to how the board or anybody can take positions. There are changes to how alternates can vote. There are some clarifications to proceedings. That is all the changes as far as I can see.
Svein: Some of the statutes about PPI are not clear. The Secretary General should be in charge of the finances, and the treasurer should be in charge of the budget. It is not clear who is in charge of what and why. We have not yet made these changes. We sent a letter about it. It would be good for PPI to go through the statutes and make something that is more coherent.
Exile: Coming back to line 10, other positions that may be created by the board. My question is there a chance to include in these statutes, as alternate members to have voting rights in the board, when they already have voting rights as board members...
Svein: I think it is about time for a full overhall. These small changes that are voted on, they are not really helping. You need to see the statututes as one document rather than one change at a time. I think there needs to be a full overhall.
Vojtech: There is now provision in article 12.6, which gives alternates a right to vote and fill office. I will look at the budget and finances. Regarding the overhall, we had some proposals a few years ago that were not adopted because they were too big. The GA did not approve them. If you want to do that, then you should make sure that the changes reflect the purpose of PPI.
Mike: Presents a point that it would have to present everything in advance before the GA, because it would be too much to talk through during the GA.
Mark: I don't really understand the consequences that these statute changes would have, I don't know if everyone does. I'm not sure if it is a good idea to vote on this
Mike: Can I ask what exactly is not clear.
Mark: It is interesting to see that we have the structure here that we have someone who is not voted as board member to fulfill a task as important as treasurer. According to how we do it in Holland, we democratically choose a treasurer. Can you explain why it is needed to do it this way. I'm curious as to why this is coming up.
Mike: This relates to the alternate board members as being semi-board members. Since the last election as treasurer there were no people who wanted to fulfill the task. I would say that we need to solve the situation somehow. Bastian was elected extra-statutory, but I would like it to be solved. Alternatively the GA could decide that it could go as is for 6 months, and we could decide next time.
Vojtech: I would say that democratic support... Current board members have democratic support, but also alternate members do, just less. All of the baord members, alternate and full have democratic support.
Mike: the alternate members are elected just as board members. They are elected by the GA.
Exile: I can understand the Dutch doubts about how there are new players in the board. Coming back to line 195, we have 5 standing committees, so there are more people involved in the board. I am pro the decision, because we need to take into account all people. I would suggest that we fix this main point, as there is no chance to have a separate vote for treasurer.
Linda: I think that getting some statutes in line with established business practice makes sense as long as the standing business practice exists in the other statutes. I think as far as the board creating other positions.. that is a necessary authority given to them because it relates to the daily task of running the organization. When it comes to finances and transparency, in order to be an organization that everyone can trust, it needs to be clear how this runs. Perhaps we need more time to look at this, because it is not like committees. Bastian cannot show us what he is doing, and no one knows what is going on there. However, I am not an expert in this, and I am not entirely sure.
Mike: I don't really get it that we need more time to look at this. This was sent over a month.
Linda: I have not been able to post on the Discourse forum. I have looked at it. My concerns have arisen from that.
Svein: I just want to comment on the fact that we have looked at it, and we have seen all of the statutes. The fact is that this was out one month ago, but there was not really time to make statute ammendments, as we had 2 days between the time it was published and the 4 weeks that it was out. 2 days is not enough time to make a full revision of the statutes or even comment on this specific topic.
Roland: We have been discussing this for 40 minutes, and we are just voting to validate what the board has been doing already, so we should just vote on it.
Bailey: There is this proposal, and then there is a complete overhall. The overhall won't happen today. This proposal today is what we need to vote on. The basic summary is that can alternate board members can hold positions such as general secretary and treasurer. There's lot of changes within the wording but that's more or less what it is. If anyone has any questions, do bring those forward, otherwise we need to vote and any bigger overhaul needs to go to a committee. Any other questions?
Manuel: Chilean PP is in favour of these changes and we also support an overhaul of the statutes and bylaws in general.
Bailey: I believe that we can move to the vote on the proposal as presented
Motion
Approval of the statutes changes
Do the members approve the statutes changes as proposed?
15yes.png Yes : 4
15no.png No : 2
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain : 3
Result: Motion does not pass with 4 out of 9 in favor.


❱ A ❰ Pirate Party of Austria
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Chile
❱ Y ❰ Czech Pirate Party
❱ not voting ❰ Pirate Party Germany
❱ A ❰ Pirate Party of Israel
❱ N ❰ Pirate Party of Netherlands
❱ N ❰ Pirate Party of Norway
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Russia
❱ Y ❰ United States Pirate Party
There is a discussion about the voting rules and whether abstentions count or are included. It is clarified that the statutes indicate that abstentions should be counted for statute changes if they are present. A vote of abstain in this instance is identical to a no vote.


Vojtech: We still need to solve the treasurer situation. Either we can remove the treasurer from the statutes altogether or eect the treasurer directly. I think the GA should ask the board to appoint someone with the statutes overhaul.
Marc Anthony: It looks like the statutes are stopping the PPI from working smoothly.

Exile: feeling like requesting someting like a opinion poll: are we fine with the temporally created position of temporaly Treasure for PPI ?

Bastian: In the statutes the voting power derives from all present and in the RoP it says the abstentions do not count.
Anthony: I am in favor of any temporary fix that can make this work. The only fix that can only make this work, is that we needed bandaids and temporary fixes.
Linda: If we're changing the understanding of the voting rules, then we need to re-vote. People voted based on the current understanding.
Vojtech: I will react to Bastian first. The statutes take precedence over rules of procedures. It's clear in the statutes that everyone present is counted towards the voting power. I understand the statutes voting is completely different from all other votes.
COMPLICATED DISCUSSION ABOUT VOTING SYSTEM
Vojtech: I have a motion to repeat the voting by e-mail within the next week.
TygBY: We're not sure what abstention means. Then we must make sure what it will mean when re-voting.
Mike: I'm not sure what the voting over email would be like.
Linda: We have to agree on what abstention means.
AJ: We should move on.
Mike: The voting procedure in the statutes don't leave any space for discussion. Abstentions and not voting count towards the total voting power. I will have to raise this issue again, because we still have the Bastian situation.
Roland: Can we just have a decision about whether we want to vote again.

Motion: Do we want to have a second vote on the voting proposal?

Motion
Vote on re-voting on the statutes change
Do we repeat the vote on the statutes change?
15yes.png Yes : {{{Yes}}}
15no.png No : {{{No}}}
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain : {{{Abstain}}}
Result: There was a majority in favor of voting again.


Motion
Approval of the statutes changes
Do the members approve the statutes changes as proposed?
15yes.png Yes : 5
15no.png No : 3
Pictogram voting neutral.svg Abstain : 2
Result: Motion does not pass with 5 out of 10 in favor.


❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Chile
❱ N ❰ Pirate Party of Austria
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Catalonia
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Chile
❱ Y ❰ Czech Pirate Party
❱ A ❰ Pirate Party Germany
❱ A ❰ Pirate Party of Israel
❱ N ❰ Pirate Party of Netherlands
❱ N ❰ Pirate Party of Norway
❱ Y ❰ Pirate Party of Russia
❱ Y ❰ United States Pirate Party

Motions

Bailey: Looking at Discourse, moving our domicile away from Switzerland and this is proposed by Mike.
Mike: We still have an issue that Bastian is a treasurer and cannot be. I propose a motion that the GA makes a motion that Bastian continues
Keith: It's a problem for the board internally. A symbolic gesture such as appointing a treasurer above Bastian would solve this as well.
Svein: I agree with Keith. This is a matter for the board to handle internally.
Roland: If Bastian is the treasurer PPAT will consider leaving PPI, because we lost trust in him.
Manuel: Are we supposed to understand that Austria files a motion to remove Bastian as a treasurer?
Linda: I would like to file a motion that the board appoints a treasurer from within the 9 board members. If that person then appoints Bastian as a vice-treasurer, so be it.
Svein: It is the board's responsibility to appoint a treasurer from among its members. So if there is to be any motion, it should be towards that goal.
Manuel: We can vote on a motion of no confidence towards the treasurer but I agree with the proposal of Norway, I'd just to make it clearer.
Svein: I don't think we need a vote of no confidence. We should give the board just time to sort this. The board wanted a statute amonedment for a non-member to be a treasurer. So we can vote that Bastian can remain as treasurer until the next GA. Or the board can fix this at the next board meeting. It's not about a specific person.
AJ: I'm also leaning now towards the board solving this. Personal concerns make me think the baord might be better equipped to solve this.
Bailey: Is anyone opposed to the issue being resolved by the board instead? No objections - the board will resolve this.

Open Discussion/Member Feedback/Closing Statements

  • Moving our domicile and bank account away from Switzerland (Mike)
Mike: I think we already discussed everything. It would be necessary for the GA to vote on this. If someone feels that we should vote on this first, and then let the board discuss this.... I am inclined on moving away from Switzerland because it sucks!
Bastian: I am not sure if we should move away from Switzerland, because we need to be registered somewhere. As a president of PWB I know that the bank problem is not general for all of Switzerland. In any case you need an office with people. We would have to found a new society in another country. And it's easy in Switzerland. But I think it's something to discuss and make ready for the next GA.
Keith: As far as the WTO and UN are concerned, we are located in Belgium. We never really moved to Switzerland, we just opened a bank account there.
Linda: The address in Switzerland is just an attorney's office. I lost confidence in the Swiss banking system. This is a dragging problem and if it was fixable it would have been fix years ago. Let's reach to our community and find a new place.
Manuel: I think that if it pleases any delegates one can put forward a motion. Can we fix the situation in Switzerland or should we solve it via different way. I would like that someone filed a motion on this.
Svein: The seat is in Switzerland or Belgium? How does it work with PPI and PPI HQ?
Bastian: The PPI HQ is located in Belgium, but our statutes say we're registered in Geneva and we are a Swiss society. Therefore we're headquartered in Switzerland by default. If we moved to a different country, we would have to register a new organisation. I propose we talk longer about this. Maybe we get offers from members they can provide office for us for example. There are problems to iron out. The Swiss lawyer is not very active. We need to discuss this more.
Svein: Starting a third organisation might not be the best thing. It needs to be cleared. Maybe we need to involve more people from outside the board.
Manuel: The Chilean delegation wants to propose that we establish the PPI as an organisation here in Chile as we have two board members here and we know the sitation here.
Mike: It shouldn't matter the number of members that are on the board, because it will take years to implement this and we don't know who will be on the board then. I'm not opposed, but I just want to present that.
Manuel: I didn't mean that as an strong argument. I meant we have the means to establish the organisation here just like in Switzerland or Belgium but without the problems.
Bailey: This doesn't feel like something to be resolved today and we all need to look into options and discuss it amongst ourselves. There's the talk about statutes overhaul and statute changes. I feel like this is similar and might be thrown together with it. There's been a lot of talk about moving away from Switzerland and together with the statutes overhaul it's something to look at.
Bastian: The mandate to the board is clear - both these issues have to be solved.
Mike: It's a problem to solve within the board. If it takes one more committee to do it, so be it.
Manuel: Do we need a motion?
Bailey: We should have it in the minutes that this is the direction to take.
Veronika: We still need to vote on the motion of Mike and the motion that was just presented by the Chilean Pirates.
Mike: Did I make a motion?
Bailey: It's just point of discussion and I just put them into the same category.
Svein: It's getting a bit too much for everyone. Maybe we could have a vote that the GA requires the board to solve these two issues and come up with a report at the next GA.
Mark: I second that. The board is the right place to do it.
Bailey: Is anybody opposed to Svein's proposal? So with no objections I think we're in agreement that the board needs to put the effort in and look at fixing these issues (Switzerland, Treasurer, Statutes).
Bailey: Short break until 13:45 UTC/15:45 CEST

Roll Call:

❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Austria ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Catalonia ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Chile ❱ present ❰ Czech Pirate Party ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party Germany ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Israel ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Netherlands ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Norway ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party of Russia ❱ present ❰ Pirate Party - Slovakia ❱ present ❰ United States Pirate Party

Bailey: The next we have here is the Think Twice conference.
  • Think Twice Conference Speakers (Keith)
Keith: We have a Think Twice conference coming up in Prague. I'll put the link for the form to sign up as a speaker and please do sign up if you want to speak or spread the word. Link:
Alexander: I submitted the form. It would be a good idea to promise feedback. On the web it also stil says we're collecting speakers until the end of June only.
Bastian: The latter issue is now fixed.
Keith: Would you like to speak or sit on a panel at the Think Twice conference, Aug. 6 and 7. Participate online or in person in Prague: https://lime.ppi.rocks/index.php?r=survey/index&sid=326194"
Veronika: In the call for submissions it still says June 28. It needs to be updated.
  • Physical Winter GA once again (Mike)
Mike: I would love (unless COVID says otherwise) to propose we consider a physical GA this coming winter. I hereby call for potential hosts and if no one else wants, PPCZ is available to host it.
Bailey: I agree that I would like to have a physical GA. With hybrid GA there used to be issues. We need to accommodate remote delegates and put them front and centre, so they are heard just as easily like the ones in person. And we must count that it might take longer and not cut something short because the people present need to go for dinner or something.
Mike: For Czechia, I can promise that we keep that in mind and do our best.
AJ: It might be possible for us to send someone in person if we had more time to get ready, for example two GAs ahead.
Bailey: Usually we would announce the GA very much in the next month or two to make people aware, so they can make plans. These are things to consider.
Bastian: We have better tools now to make a hybrid conference. In the past we had a problem with including the remote delegates. Now the tools are there. It is a must for us to have a hybrid conference. We can learn at the next PPEU council meeting in Brussels for example. I think we need to see and feel each other again.
Alexander: Even before COVID there was often an option at the big confereces to have multiple locations at once, so if the main GA was in Australia or the US, there could be another place to gather in Europe for example. So called "Remote HUBs".
Bailey: I like that idea, so people can hang out together. Something to consider. Does anyone think that a physical GA is a bad idea? No? Okay. :-) Let's see how COVID will turn out and decide within let's say two months.
  • DAO Update (Keith)
Keith: We had a decision at our last GA that we'd have an internal DAO for voting or an external one for crowdfunding. We said yes to both. We did make some progress on the external one but not on the internel one due to skepticism whether people would actually use it and be able to maintain their keys and such. I'd like to hear a commitment from our members that they'd like to create a voting system for us.
Exile: This DAO had something to do with open softwere some party uses for voting? I know Discourse is not for voting but wouldn't it be better to also implement the deliberation/argumentation part?
Keith: It's not associated with the voting tool used by the PPEU. We're still in the experimental phase.
AJ: I watched the last GA recording. I know there was a discussion on this. I do kind of have some concerns that it would be used. I don't know what it would actually add to PPI. I don't want to do it just because it sounds cool. I'm wondering if people will use because of not seeing what the added value is.
Keith: I don't know if it will improve things. People voted to use it but then the 1on1 discussions provided me with a feeling that people are skeptical. One of the reasons we didn't do it yet because there is some cost to do it on Aethereum for example.
Bastian: To AJ: Can you send me an official photo so I can make an article about USPP joining. On the GA today. I'd like to note that the PPAT members are trying for the third time to promote distrust towards the PPDE members (Unicorngate, Alex Kohler and now me).
Roland: We spent an hour on a minor statute change but we spoke for a few minutes about our complaint. Now I'm named again as a person who's trying to get to the Germans. It should be now to give everybody a chance to speak up about what happened around the P4U campaign. I've put a lot of work into the complaint that was sent to but not picked up by the CoA. I urge you all to read it. https://wiki.piratenpartei.at/w/images/c/cd/PPI_CoA_Complaint_Pirates4Ukraine.pdf
Exile: I would like to point out that Bailey is doing great chairing this meeting.
Svein: We've had a short PPNO board meeting of the PPNO and I have a short declaration: From The Board of PPNO:

As mentioned to the Board PPNO has had an internal discussion about PPI and PPNOs membership. It's been discussed since last year, but I have postponed an actual vote on the matter.

The majority of the board wants to recommend our next GA to formally leave PPI.

The last drop has been the handling of the P4U campaign, and the fact that PPNO has not received an answer to our formal request to the PPI board. PPNO lost confidence after the PPI Board Meeting at the 2. of June and the things said there from members of the Board, and we feel that it's not possible to regain confidence as long as our concerns are not heard and our letter has not been answered by the board.

On behalf of PPNO Svein Mork Dahl Chair, PPNO.

Bailey: I don't really have words so if anyone likes to speak?
Keith: I've been following this issue as best as I could and the board meets every three weeks. I've put everything into Redmine but we're ina position of having a board consisting of volunteers and we need more people to help with stuff. I want us to learn from this and not destroy ourselves in the process.
This is the link to the decision of the board, and once it is resolved we will make a formal response:
https://redmine.pp-international.net/issues/410
Bailey: I want to say I've been in touch with Svein the whole time.
Manuel: Are we to understand that PPNO is announcing its withdrawal from the PPI?
Svein: It's not about the money. Together with the people we're working with we have raised millions. A thousand EUR doesn't mean that much. I was hoping this will help us and we could help on the ground. As to Manuel's question: We have it in our statutes that we're members of the PPI. We just decided that our next GA will vote on leaving the PPI, as we need the vote by our members. Some people have the feeling that we have not been on the same side. I hope the situation will change soon and we regain confidence in the PPI board. I was actually the single against vote.
Mike: I'd like to reiterrate that we're all doin this on our free time, PPNO, PPI, everyone else.
Roland: I spent months on this, rules were constantly changing, we have been lied to and now we're being blamed. And our complaint isn't even delivered. It's an enormous list of f***-ups. It's not just me but all the people on the PPAT board and the people taking part in this campaign. We speak about this for weeks and now it just feels like a small matter.
Manuel: Unless explicitely said otherwise, any claims by members of the board at the GA are their own and do not represent the board. I'd like to extend on what Keith and Mike said: I respect the PPNO's position. This isn't the first time we had objections from our members. It is rather upsetting to see such a lack of proactive collaboration when there's always options for a collaborative effort. Now we have the consensus to reorganise the rules of the PPI and the headquarters. But we don't count on the contribution of the member parties. You can see that on the standing committees. I'm trying to say that if there are really issues I would appreciate that if the national parties seeing problems within the PPI would also help with fixing them. Each member of the board surely is partially to blame and we would really appreciate your support is we share the common objective of pushing the Pirate movement forward.
Svein: We have tried. We have had people on the board of PPI for many years. We in 2019 when PPI asked for volunteers, we came up with 14 names that filled many of these committees. One of the problems is the Court of Arbitration. We had perhaps 2 people on the CoA. They received an email and then there was no communication at all, and then just before the next GA they were told that you have to deliver a report. They were not told that they needed to meet. There was no explanation. We were trying to support PPI. It was a disappointment, because there was no communication from the board. The answer from the Board was the CoA should have understood and it did not fall on the board. Aside from this, they received one email, but it did not have the contact of the other members if what I was told is correct. We have lost faith. It is up to PPI to show that these things we are taking them seriously, and we want you to continue supporting us. The majority of our board does not have that feeling.
Mike: The General Assembly meets every year in the winter to vote on the board and the Coa, and then the Coa doesn't meet. They receive the contacts of each other, and you blame the board. Is it the role of the executive to tell the judicial branch what it is supposed to do. I don't understand how this is the board's problem. There are a lot of problems with the board, but this is not one of them.
Svein: We don't agree with you on that. YOu can say that it's not the board's problem. They were never told what to do. I'm using the CoA as an example. They wanted to do something, which is why they run and due to there being no communication they didn't meet.
Roland: I don't think it's my responsibility to ask whether the e-mails are even reaching the CoA. That's the board's problem. And I also have issues with Bastian responding to me, that he received a complaint from ppAT, that he will present to the Court of Arbitration, concerning the separation of powers in PPI.
Linda: We want to be part of the PPI and help but it reached the point of frustration. I don't know how many times did we say even the committee nams should change. A ton of times we weren't listened to being told the names of the committees can't be changed. I know how much of our private time goes into this. Sometimes we have to be honest and express this. It comes from a place of being Pirates and wanting to do this. We just don't know how to help anymore. If we didn't care we wouldn't have said anything. Changes need to happen. We need to get effective for the sake of the Pirate movement.
Bastian: Roland just gave a perfect example of spreading false facts. I said at the board meeting that I will take legal action against the PPAT's defamation.
Roland: You're mixing up meetings. You said both of those things. I quoted you in the complaint to the board of arbitration. "I have received a formal complaint from the PP-AT. I will present this case to the Arbitration Court."
https://wiki.pp-international.net/wiki/index.php?title=PPI_Minutes_2022-05-31
Manuel: Thanks Bailey for the moderation. I want to react to Svein and Linda. I can speak on behalf of some members of the PPI board that we're doing what we can to do better within the current state of the organisation. All these problems will be solved but we now have the opportunity to address these problems.
AJ: As an outsider having the pleasure of ignorance: this is just my thoughts - it feels to me that a lot of these sound like structural issues, spending a lot of time on basic structural things. To me it sounds like if the whole organisation shouldn't be strictly evaluated and perhaps rebooted.
Mike: I have a lot of things to say, but it is impossible to say everything when writing the minutes. From Linda's side, the Norweigans are feeling that they don't have anything to contribute to PPI. I feel you. If you spent a lot of time on something, send it out to people to look at, they do not and then kill your work with the argument that they didn't have time to look at it, it feels pointless to me as well sometimes. I am not ready to give up on it. I am frustrated as well; you're certainly not alone.
Mark: Thank you Bailey. I am happy with you doing this, and it must be tough for you as well. I think everyone here is on good intentions. The concept that we have here was to help each other make things easier, better, lighter, so we can make this world a little bit more beautiful, and instead we have done the oppositte. I like what Anthony said, if we change the structure, change the soil, things can work out better.
Roland: I want to say as the person being called a liar, hopefully you read the link. I am extremely frustrated until it makes me sick to the stomache. Maybe I will leave, maybe I won't, but there are people within the PPI that I hold very dear to my heart and would like to work with but I really hope it would be possible to just stick to a job and do our work and move on. Being called a liar, being threatened with law suits, lawyers and the prosecutioner's office is the world I live in, while following the statutes to the point. Unless we can't be frank and perfectly honest with each other this is a doomed operation. We need to get honest and then things can improve.
Mark: So now the board has a lot of work ahead of itself.
Mike: I'd like to expand on that: we all have a lot of work to do. YOu're mistake if you think that the board will do all this work without any help from the member parties. I'm not rewriting any statutes and bylaws if I feel that nobody will even look at them ahead of the GA and then just kill it.
Alexander: There's a lot of blame in internal strife. I see that situations are constantly created to discredit the PPI. We should consider adding to the statutes ammendment a way to expel parties which are constantly discrediting the PPI.
Mauricio: PPI is an NGO formed of political parties. We had no political discussian at this GA. We're facing a war in Europe, upswing of far right parties everywhere. The question is if people and the world need Pirates. And I believe we all believe that. We need to defend privacy, and democracy and human rights. We need to work together better in order to improve the world. We're not fighting the outward problems but our internal ones.
Linda: What I was going to suggest that perhaps for the next six months we might have working days until the next GA instead of the standing committees to work on our organisational issues and our political output. Our (PPNO) chair is trying to be on the ground as much as he can and I'm sad the GA has been seen negatively. There's a lot of palpable misunderstandings, crating a way more unfortunate picture of the situation than it is. Let's call it whatever you do. It's the only diplomatic solution I can see. I apologise if my feedback made anybody less motivated.
Svein: :I want to ask a question, who is this disheartening? <Alex> There are articles, article 7, for termination of membership. There's no one here who doesn't have the best interest of the Pirate movement in mind. If we start expelling members for different opinions... The CoA needs to know what is their mandate. If you want to expell us from the PPI then you'r no f-ing Pirate.
AJ: I volunteer to help and other people of the USPP want to help as well. We're throwing our hats into the ring.
Svein: I also volunteer to help Mike with the statutes.
Alexander: For the last few years we've seen a lot of accusations and attempts to discredit the PPI.
Shouting match between Alexander and Svein
Svein: i never been asked for reciepts
Ohad: It's nice to hear how people are emotionally invested. We have a national elections again in a few months. Maybe this forum can be used to help member parties. We'd like to organise a conference in Jerusalem two weeks before the elections, in October. We would like to invite Pirates from around the world, hopefully some elected members to come visit. What do you all think?
Mark: I like the idea of the Jerusalem conference. Maybe we can start a template for new statutes for the PPI, something simple and understandable.
Mike: I want to expand on the new statutes. I think it is going to be difficult to create new statutes, since we wasted an hour on a small issue that was perceived missing. There is no thing as easily understood statutes. They are long and complicated to account for everything that can happen. One route I would take it is to not be specific on every matter, but to make it general to each organ. The General Assembly would be the only thing that needed specific rules. Let's do it.
Bastian: It is nice that Vojtech is here again. I send some direct notices and asked a lot of people about your address. I will put your address in the core list, so you receive mails. There are two other people who are not on this list...
Vojtech: Sent to you, in the chat and to the Wiki.
Bailey: I'm having trouble gathering my thoughts around this conversation. It's a bit overwhelming. You've all been heard. I think everyone here understands what the struggle is. We do need an overhaul. It sounds like people are motivated to fix these issues and I thin we need to put in the effort, time and work on it. I like Linda's idea to make the foundations the main focus for the following months so we solve the issues to avoid them coming back to bite us. The solution can't just involve the board. The board's responsibility is to facilitate things and the members must be willing to put in the work too. It's totalyl possible to fix these issues. We elect the board every year, have the common goals, all needs to involve all of us. We are about six hours intoo this now. We'll getting to the end slowly.
AJ: I don't know how this would work. Between now and the next GA fixing all of these structural problems that people are commenting about. I could work with Linda or whoever.
Bailey: It would be nice to get the standing committees going again but the priority needs to be fixing the structural issues. I think we should do that. The board will facilitate the process but nothing's going to work if members just sit back and wait for the board to do everything. PPI needs to be a largely member-driven organisation. I do hope that people are serious about this and are willing to help. Is there anything else anyone wants to add before we close the meeting.
Vojtech: I'd just like to say that we got the complaint and will start the proceedings today.
Bailey: Thanks for being here and I hope we showed that we can improve things. Great job everybody. Thanks for participating. Congratulations again to the US Pirate Party. We're glad to have you with us.
AJ: We're growing every day and hopefully it will be possible to see more of us (USPP), maybe even on the news.
Bailey: Again, enjoy the rest of your Saturday, reflect on things and start making things better. Let's be a big team. I hereby close the meeting.

https://etherpad.pp-international.net/p/StatuteConceptPPI2022

Meeting closed at 15:30 UTC/ 17:30 CEST

  • Next PPI Board meeting 12.07.2022 14:00 UTC / 16:00 CEST
BBB-Video conference https://bbb.piratensommer.de/b/gre-cnw-a9v